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That really happens a great deal, and quite often, it happens in a different way. Many areas of psychology have changed, and it clearly is a better science than it was 10 years ago because of the replication crisis. You might be surprised by what occupies Daniel Kahneman’s thoughts. KAHNEMAN: Then having multiple individuals engaged in it, they share their biases, you’ll get the bias. Google, for example, when it hires people, they have a minimum of four individuals making independent assessments of each candidate. Music, arguably, is a form of bias. Bias will do it for you. This peculiarity of human psychology is the basis for Prospect Theory, developed by Kahneman and … And there is a common answer that you find, when I just talk to people and ask them, or the executives had the same answer. And he was also very funny, and being funny is a major asset in social life. They get attached to things, and then they don’t want to sell them. It is true no longer. But in addition, one would want a normative theory that takes into account human nature, which the principle of consistency doesn’t. KAHNEMAN: I don’t think it’s a bias, no. . But that sense of understanding . I was, as a lieutenant in the army, age 21 or 22 — I made a difference. COWEN: That people aren’t switching their attention to the new problem? They constructed cases, very routine, standard cases. It breaks down sunk cost bias? Wednesday 19 December 2018. https://www.conversationswithtyler.com. I'm Akash kumar. Happiness feels good, right? “I really don’t think of bias that much.” These days, noise might be the concept most on Kahneman’s mind. There are obvious ways of doing this. To those who have read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey and Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, how do we reconcile these two? There’s a great deal of that happening. Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise [audio] (libsyn.com) 61 points by gmishuris 43 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 10 comments skagar 42 days ago Can I spend three minutes to explain that? I have no idea how to answer your question. So I’m very lucky. There may be some resemblance. Let me start with the issue of happiness. Retrospectively, you find, “Oh yeah, this is what I did,” in the historical perspective. Is it a placebo? In Noise, Daniel Kahneman, Cass R. Sunstein, and Olivier Sibony show how noise contributes significantly to errors in all fields, including medicine, law, economic forecasting, police behavior, food safety, bail, security checks at airports, strategy, and personnel selection. It happens when somebody’s insulted because you didn’t cite him. But the idea of going back to relive a vacation — that’s not what I do, so I have little empathy for this. So the moral emotion of shame and your thoughts. Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise Dec. 19, 2018. COWEN: So if you’re picking the Daniel Kahneman superforecasting team, what qualities are you looking for in individuals? The notion of pleasure principle, reality principle — it’s a little bit like Thinking, Fast and Slow in some ways, with big differences. COWEN: Do you think that telling people you’ll be happier a particular way changes their behavior much? That is, there is one thing that we know that improves the quality of judgment, I think. KAHNEMAN: Yeah. I mean, just randomness. And do you think there are factors he’s overlooking in how his tournaments are set up? In organizations, which Kahneman refers to as factories of decisions and judgments, reducing noise is very important. Do you see any benefit to shame? COWEN: If you think of the literature on what are called cognitive disabilities — ADHD — do you think of that as bias or somehow in a different logical category? COWEN: If we think about, say, sports, they’re a form of bias, right? So the way to test whether things are successful would to be to ask a person’s friends, has he become or she become happier? iTunes . But I can’t evaluate that. You can ask in the sense that they are driven by something that didn’t happen, that could have happened but didn’t. KAHNEMAN: He picks the teams by results, so what he has, he has people competing in making probabilistic forecasts of strategic or economic events in the medium and short term. That gives them a very good feeling, to be labeled superforecasters. KAHNEMAN: If I knew how I would change my mind, I would have changed my mind. Or where does that come from? There were provocative claims that most published research in medicine are false, and it started there. Your beliefs and your preferences have to be internally consistent. The programs do not need the grand masters. There is such a thing as indignation, as moral disgust. Because, of course, they’re even more resistant to that than I am when I challenge myself. But it’s a matter of planning how you’re going to make the decision, and making it in stages, and not acting without an intuitive certainty that you are doing the right thing. Do you share the same opinion or not? I think there is in the audience a friend of mine, Gary Klein, who is violently opposed to what I’m saying, as are many others. Now, there are ways of handling perceptual problems, and so thinking is difficult again. KAHNEMAN: No, I don’t know it well enough. And I know that this is going to happen to everything that I believe. and in fact, I wasn’t following in his footsteps. And can we discuss it? Expensive cases — we’re not talking of insuring cars. COWEN: There’s a good deal of evidence that people in businesses are overconfident, but do you think they’re more overconfident than they should be? You have to collect a lot of information, and you have to ask yourself what the student really wants and where he or she will really fit. Regret is what happens the next morning. “You seem to think that I think of bias all the time,” he tells Tyler. And that hasn’t been done. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I’m curious about what beliefs you currently hold that you think in the next five to ten years might be proven incorrect, and alternatively, the same question of social science broadly. There’s soundtrack music — it affects how you view the movie, even though it’s not changing any facts. I would feel free. Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share by Email. KAHNEMAN: Way beyond what I can talk about responsibly. They actually want to maximize their satisfaction with themselves and with their lives. I’m resistant to that, of course, because I always want to think that whatever thought I’m having at the moment is the exception, and I’m thinking it for good reasons. Here's a précis of Kahneman's current thinking on this and other topics, drawn from an interview with Tyler Cowen (both video and a transcript are available at "Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise," December 19, 2018). Or only some highly successful firms? Bonus Episode - Prospect Theory: In this classic GameTek, Geoff talks about how people approach gains and losses differently. I think sunk cost is really the enemy when you’re doing research, innovative research. KAHNEMAN: Well, in some cases, we know, and you can do that associatively. It took people completely by surprise. KAHNEMAN: The rational-agent models are built on the notion of consistency being the one guiding principle. It’s true for firefighters, captains, as Gary Klein has shown. If I think of Freud’s two principles of mental functioning, right? The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania, 08 June, 2016. KAHNEMAN: Directly, nothing. I hadn’t viewed myself . That works, and we know it does. People clearly overestimate what they can do and how good they are. In chapter 7, there is, basically, a theory of attention. Or is it just the best option in a temporally constrained environment? KAHNEMAN: If you were asking what are the evolutionary value, then the duration of pain is really not very important. Our choice of topic lent itself to a lot of things that are virtually impossible in other fields. If they can diagnose the situation accurately and do it quickly and act intuitively on that basis, then of course it’s beneficial. When people collect too little information or are swayed by the first thing that comes to mind, you get noise rather than bias. 00:00. The problem with intuition is that it forms very quickly, so that you need to have special procedures in place to control it except in those rare cases — and Gary Klein and others have demonstrated that — where you have intuitive expertise. KAHNEMAN: We certainly invest heavily, heavily in memories. Or is that immune to the degree of replicability? One result from that paper is how much people enjoy spending time with their friends. But once you have a machine making decisions, the conditions under which it’s a good idea for humans to override them are really well known and well understood. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good evening. If you start making a long speech or statement, I will cut you off. If I stumble on something, it will move me. Of that I’m quite confident. Or is it just a cost we would like to minimize? You might be surprised by what occupies Daniel Kahneman’s thoughts these days. But there is one line of therapy that clearly works, and it’s evidence based, and it’s supported time and again. In the first place, it’s nice, it’s pleasant to be overconfident, especially if you’re an optimist. In November, Kahneman joined Tyler for a live conversation about bias, noise and more, including happiness, memory, the replication crisis in psychology, advice to CEOs about improving decision-making, superforecasters, the influence of Freud, working in a second language, the value of intuition, and why he can’t help you win arguments with a spouse. Should one wish that it weren’t? KAHNEMAN: I’m optimistic on virtually nothing. KAHNEMAN: I have an opinion on that, and I think it is supported by evidence. And similarly, there are differences on whether risk taking is considered a good thing or a bad thing. It’s not exactly a bias, and it’s not necessarily . Give it a few decades — it’s going to be irrelevant. COWEN: Do you think of low intelligence as yet a third independent source of error? I write all of the posts and host all of the podcast episodes you'll find on the Evolving SEO blog.iam jsut exploring my knowledge and help other people by writing article related Hacking and current ugrades. COWEN: But if there’s a bias in individuals and noise, why should we trust our experience about this apparent sense of having two methods? KAHNEMAN: I think there’s no question that there are cultural differences. In November, Kahneman joined Tyler for a live conversation about bias, noise and more, including happiness, memory, the replication crisis in psychology, advice to CEOs about improving decision-making, superforecasters, the influence of Freud, working in a second language, the value of intuition, and why he can’t help you win arguments with a spouse. There is a lot of investment. For us, we were examining our own thinking, and finding stupid things in our own thinking, and finding that delightful and very funny. Web. When it was done, I realized that it resembled chapter 7 quite a bit. KAHNEMAN: What we have learned is that our basic ideas about what’s difficult and what’s easy, what’s going to be simple and what’s going . And there is a lot of bias in that direction. You might be surprised by what occupies Daniel Kahneman's thoughts these days. We ought to have normative theories that are adapted to who we are as people, as humans. KAHNEMAN: So I think delaying intuition is a very good idea. . He looks at your work, and he says, “That’s just the same as what I’ve said before.” And in some way, it may be true. SAVE. They haven’t had the opportunity to acquire it, so they better slow down. KAHNEMAN: That’s what would matter. COWEN: There are mics on each side. I think this is beautiful research. But just delay it until all the information is available. Are you asking me as a parent, say? When I try to persuade somebody else to listen to one of my opinions with an open mind, is there some particular technique that you would recommend for persuading other people to do better with their own biases? . First question: could prediction markets reduce both bias and noise? . The idea of two systems is really anchored in a basic sort of fact of experience, that the process by which you get 2 plus 2 is fundamentally different from the way that you get 17 by 24. KAHNEMAN: Phil Tetlock really has a comprehensive list, which I’m not going to remember. Alex Ross on Music, Culture, and Criticism. I also have questions from the iPad. By what percentage do people differ? COWEN: And why does duration of pain seem to matter so little for how we evaluate painful experiences? That’s my bias. For some reason, when I was a graduate student . Oddly enough, there is one aspect of Freudian work that I think did influence me. It’s going to be worsened, and everybody will have much higher confidence in their biased views because other people share them. COWEN: And what will the main theme of that book be? It’s amazing — within a decade, psychology has changed. It’s not so much a matter of time because you don’t want people to get paralyzed by analysis. It’s sort of boring. KAHNEMAN: It’s an empirical matter. In certain domains, it’s much easier to be rational when you can look things up, when you can search on the computer instead of going out and searching, as you had to when I was a young person. And much of your next book will be about noise. Message board - Online Community of active, educated investors researching and discussing Braskem S.A. Stocks. . Cases were constructed completely realistically, the kind of thing that people encounter every day. Looking back on your collaboration with Amos Tversky, which has been written about widely, of course — there’s the famous Michael Lewis book. "Daniel Kahneman’s Strategy for How Your Firm Can Think Smarter." Misinformation is also readily available. KAHNEMAN: Well, it’s a proven way . Read Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise by with a free trial. COWEN: But say you have a student who has a gut feeling that he or she ought to go to some college for a reason he or she cannot articulate. In quite a few European countries, optimism is considered rather foolish. There was a crisis, and many results were questioned, I think correctly. Daniel Kahneman, author of Thinking, Fast and Slow, in conversation with Tyler Cowen, on bias and decision making.Important listening for anyone involved in … And you really could make a difference. Daniel Kahneman. Should they be using more of it? If you think of actual mistakes in human decision-making, how do you now see the relative weight of bias versus noise? There is such a thing as moral emotion. KAHNEMAN: I don’t know enough about that. There were aggressors, and there were defenders, and both sides, I think, behaved, quite often, quite badly. On this topic of delaying intuition — and I’m delighted that Mr. Klein is in the audience because I spent over a decade myself as an intuitive expert and found myself mostly using recognition-primed decision-making. But if you were going to challenge yourself to identify something going on in the world now or in the near term about which to be optimistic, if not for yourself, for your grandchildren, say, or very young people, what should they be optimistic about? Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share by Email. But to exaggerate the odds of success is a very useful thing for people. COWEN: Philip Tetlock has argued that, if we set up long-run tournaments with forecasting, and we measure results, and we test teams against each other, that we can, in the longer run, reduce, I think, both the noise and bias. Transcript and links Follow Tyler on Twitter More CWT goodness: Facebook Twitter Instagram Email, The Secret To Success with CJ, Karl, Jemal & Eric Thomas. A lot of things influence the way that people make judgments: whether they are full, or whether they’ve had lunch or haven’t had lunch affects the judges, and things like that. That tendency to identify with what’s around us, and with things that we are connected to, is very powerful. The first one is the one that you just answered, not exactly the same. MeLavi 1 year ago . So when you have a well-running program, leave it alone. That’s my guess. Again, actually, it’s more than 50 percent. I have nothing to add, I think. . I don’t have an answer. So I don’t know how important or how useful it is. KAHNEMAN: Because of sunk costs. And that’s what we’re talking about here. Happiness feels good in the moment. And it’s a very interesting developing thing. If you enjoy Conversation with Tyler, consider making a year-end donation at ConversationsWithTyler.com/donate. (2011). Of course, it affected the whole zeitgeist; it affected the whole culture. Guilt is a counterfactual emotion. But it had no effect on my work with Amos Tversky. Sometimes they just don’t like to sell what they have. So there are certainly cultural differences. KAHNEMAN: But that AI is developing faster than anybody could have anticipated — no question. It’s the only thing we get to keep. COWEN: And also from classical psychology, either Jung or Piaget — did you draw anything from them? It completes the experience. Some people might argue, “Well, Israelis, they have a tendency to speak directly because they’ve had a lot of crisis situations, where you can’t beat around the bush. If you think about your early work on vision and on Israeli bus drivers, how did your later work on biases and thinking fast, thinking slow come out of your very earliest papers? In one of the experiments, he has people, and they have a glass of orange juice, and they have a sticker. Then psychology came very soon after. Noise will be reduced. He feels very free in an intelligence unit. KAHNEMAN: It was supposed to be out in the fall of 2020. AUDIENCE MEMBER: On a practical note, my high school psychology students ask how they can best use your research to make choices about college and career. That’s a technical problem — how long it will take to get the cleanup, the last 1 percent. And having an ambiguity as to cause and effect is, in part, what allows us to get along with each other? COWEN: What do you think are the main obstacles? Could you say more about how we might identify, or define and identify, this reasonableness? About Akash kumar About Akash kumar Hi! To appreciate the distinction, think of your bathroom scale. And that’s a very striking thing — that memories stay with you, and the reality of life is gone in an instant. That you know is what you’ve got to examine because people really do get better over time, so measuring how much practice they’ve had. KAHNEMAN: You don’t need noise for that. In November, Kahneman joined Tyler for a live conversation about bias, noise and more, including happiness, memory, the replication crisis in psychology, advice to CEOs about improving decision-making, superforecasters, the influence of Freud, working in a second language, the value of intuition, and why he can’t help you win arguments with a spouse. COWEN: It’s like lower sunk costs in a way. All gifts will support the show’s production, including future live podcast recordings like this one. COWEN: Do you think we overinvest or underinvest in memories, overall? and the procedures by which you would reduce bias and reduce noise are not the same. COWEN: Some questions about psychologists outside of what you’ve worked on, but maybe related — Freud. Say for example you participate in the lottery where you have a 1/5 chances of winning $100,000,000 and you're the only participant. But to exaggerate the odds of success is a very useful thing for people. “You seem to think that I think of bias all the time,” he tells Tyler. New top story on Hacker News: Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise [audio] Get link; Facebook; Twitter; Pinterest; Email; Other Apps; December 28, 2018 Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise [audio] 38 by gmishuris | 7 comments. This is our chance to hear from Danny Kahneman. have undergone a series of revolutionary changes. Post a Comment. So if there is a thing that’s loss aversion, that it plays a large role, and that’s less research in novices. COWEN: Your current collaborators on the noise book — how would you describe that collaboration? Because I’ve read conflicting theories there. And certainly, the person who sells me the shoes feels no loss aversion for the shoes. COWEN: If you think of your own life, have you maximized happiness or the overall sense of how your life has gone? Open in Pocket Casts. COWEN: Much of your last book is about bias, of course. They’re particularly important in the context of goal striving. KAHNEMAN: I don’t really completely understand the term forcing function in this context. . I’ve never been very interested in individual differences and not in gender either, so I don’t know. You might be surprised by what occupies Daniel Kahneman's thoughts these days. KAHNEMAN: Well, there are certain criteria that you would want to apply before you put a machine to work. In the HBR article, Kahneman and colleagues report on the noise measurements for ten decisions in two financial services organisations. What I mean by indirectly is that the air I breathe was influenced by Herbert Simon. Driverless cars — although they’re ahead of the pace we thought 10 years ago, they may be behind the pace we thought 2 years ago. It’s been a great honor to have you. Now, what we found was 50 percent, 5–0, which, by the way, means that those underwriters were absolutely wasting their time, in the sense of assessing risk. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Many behavioral economists use the notion of rationality in neoclassical economics as a normative benchmark, and you have said that you don’t think that’s necessarily a good normative benchmark. There is room for . The questions that are of interest as a psychologist is, when can you simulate common sense? How much was Israel a forcing function for your thinking? B. I. U. KAHNEMAN: They will be intelligent, they will be numerate, they’ll be open-minded, they’ll be curious, interested in learning, eager to train their mind. COWEN: So you’re pessimistic about the ability of psychologists to develop structural explanations of where feelings of repugnance come from. . Loss aversion being one of the main focuses throughout the book. KAHNEMAN: Altogether, I don’t think that people maximize happiness in that sense. KAHNEMAN: Like everybody else, I think, like many others, there are two exciting developments now that one would want to know about. COWEN: Do you think we’ve learned anything general about common sense by having some artificial intelligence? Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise [audio] (libsyn.com) 61 points by gmishuris 43 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 10 comments skagar 42 days ago And indeed, you don’t have to go as far as he does to find cases in which people act fairly rationally. You might be surprised by what occupies Daniel Kahneman’s thoughts. After a year of that, you select the top 2 percent and you call them superforecasters. And you find variability within individuals, depending morning, afternoon, hot, cold. Other cultures are disgusted by other things. Note: A select number of articles and book chapters, as well as the entire text of Dr. Kahneman's 1973 book Attention and Effort, are available online. Those kinds of experiences — that you can do things that seemed impossible or unlikely — that is certainly very liberating and encouraging and induces creativity. And tell us who they are. They view the problem as an instance of a category, and then they switch to looking at the problem from the inside. Suppose you take two people at random, two underwriters at random. Cutting Through the Noise Daniel Kahneman on applying behavioral psychology to financial advice. It’s not necessarily good for them…But for society as a whole to have a lot of optimists taking risks — that’s what makes for economic progress, so I call that the engine of capitalism, really, that sort of optimism. Gary Klein and I became friends over a period of six years when we were trying to find out, what are the boundaries? Is that their bias? So memory has a disproportionate weight because it’s with us. You might be surprised by what occupies Daniel Kahneman’s thoughts. You don’t actually think your team is better. COWEN: If you think about the issue of, when people think about the world, they find some kind of transactions repugnant. So there are repugnant transactions. That’s something else. And there are different views on that, but my sense is that this is the direction of the bias, yeah, sunk costs. How You Really Make Decisions – Horizon (BBC TV series) – Series 2013–2014 No. But without that, without this asymmetry of knowledge, if there is a bias, it won’t be reduced. And it was true for a while. You would be left with bias, but you would eliminate one source of error, and the question is just price. When I wrote Thinking, Fast and Slow — like 10 years ago — when I was doing that, then it turned out that I put together all my life’s work, and the early work did get into Thinking, Fast and Slow. And do you think that something like increased migration or open borders would dissolve these cultural differences and push toward a more optimal equilibrium? Vacations for many people are investment in the formation and maintenance of memories. . I'm Akash kumar. Listen to Daniel Kahneman On Cutting Through The Noise and 114 more episodes by Conversations With Tyler, free! Is there a placebo effect in psychoanalysis? It’s true for chess masters. It’s not going to be this or that detail. And you have to treat them as you treat every other moral feeling. So, yes. COWEN: We now have some time for questions. Manchester United star Daniel James caught up with a Wigan dad to hear how support for mental health issues has continued throughout this year’s pandemic. KAHNEMAN: My guess is too long, but it’s a personal bias. In your first try, you lose. While Kahneman has spent much of his career studying bias, he is now focused on noise. You might be surprised by what occupies Daniel Kahneman’s thoughts. To what extent should we think of bias as the main thing that gives our lives an overall structure, just as a musical soundtrack is what gives structure to a movie? It means that people have difficulty controlling their attention, focusing on what they want to focus on, and staying focused. Conversations with Tyler: Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise (Dec 19 2018) Masters in Business: Interview with Daniel Kahneman (August 4, 2016) Trend Following with Michael Covel: Ep. . iTunes . And what were your other examples? Or . Virtually all the literature and a lot of public conversation is about biases. What’s important is the intensity because the intensity is a measure of the severity of threat. I wouldn’t generalize on that, but it would take . It would contribute more to noise than to bias, by the way, by and large. COWEN: Moving the chess piece is often harder than figuring out the best move for the program. The useless variability that we call noise is a different type of error. COWEN: Personality psychology and five-factor personality theory — is that, for you, a useful way of thinking about human beings? Noise is clearly a statistical way of looking at things, and bias is inherently causal — so the interplay of those forms of thinking. KAHNEMAN: It’s a game one primarily plays with one’s spouse, and it doesn’t work, I think, by and large. COWEN: So it’s the means really that interest you the most. COWEN: Do you see the wisdom of crowds as a way of addressing noise in business firms? That’s what people expect to see in a well-run firm. Home / Hacker News / New top story on Hacker News: Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise [audio] / Hacker News / New top story on Hacker News: Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise … If you made a list of intelligent ways to go at problems, that’s what people do. But for society as a whole to have a lot of optimists taking risks — that’s what makes for economic progress, so I call that the engine of capitalism, really, that sort of optimism. COWEN: And you think even knowing about this doesn’t change that. Then he got bored with that, and he got a PhD. COWEN: And does noise play any useful roles, either in businesses or in broader society? COWEN: Are there groups of people you feel are less subject to biases? Daniel Kahneman on Cutting Through the Noise. “I really don’t think of bias that much.” These days, noise might be the concept most on Kahneman’s mind. Well, would you expect people to differ? Get the latest #cowenconvos delivered straight to your inbox. No signup or install needed. KAHNEMAN: Yeah, it’s the means and it’s some extremes. To give you a sense of the way that works, there is psychologist Paul Rozin, who has done some brilliant experiments on that. COWEN: Do people structure their vacations to meet the standard, or there’s a kind of market failure? . You know how it happened, and it’s likely to happen in many other fields. And this is to delay intuition. . I think our publishers just remembered that there is going to be a presidential election at that time and that probably a lot of more interesting books are going to be appearing. COWEN: From the iPad, why did the replication crisis take so long to arrive in social psychology? A forthcoming book, coauthored with Cass Sunstein and “a brilliant Frenchman you haven’t heard of” is about how random variability affects our decision-making.

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